Originally posted on May 18th. Edited today. See bottom of post.
Today's been a little more packed than other days, despite it being a Sunday. Friends dropped in from Bombay (awfully nice of them!) and that made this Sunday a trifle less lazy!
From the moment I glanced at the papers this morning, I've meaning to write this post. Take a look at the day's headlines:
India tells China off on Sikkim! Great going India! Celebrate this instead of that rubbish called ipl!
Gurgaon techie held for posting derogatory messages against Sonia Gandhi on Orkut! WOW! I'm THRILLED TO BITS! The last time a student was arrested for bad mouthing modi, it didn't cause too much of a flutter. I'm waiting to see what happens this time. Wonder if there'll be any word from the Mutiny on this one.
Railway Porter No. 6362 at Kanpur Central is learning how to read, write! More power to Laloo I say! Laloo for PM!!! If people (I don't even wanna call them that!) are considering advani's name, I think Laloo is by far a better bet! Laloo daudega! Biharis will be safe in Bombay too!!!
Binayak Sen wins the Jonathan Mann Award for Global Health & Human Rights! Great news! Another feather in India's cap! And a slap in the face for the bjp govt. in Chattisgarh! Yahoo!
One of my friends from Bombay, a Bihari Brahmin girl with no evinced Congress leanings was relating stories of how the right-wing extremists were putting up propaganda on websites and emails about how Sonia was the daughter of the Mafia and how she'd been planted at Cambridge to rijhao Rajiv Gandhi. The Mafia's idea apparently was to get access to effect deals like Bofors! WOW! What a story! Why can't these nobodies stop obsessing over the Nehru-Gandhi family?
She had more to add on the rss. Apparently a few years back, they sangh parivar stripped a woman in public in Gujarat because she was in jeans, offending Indian culture. These are the people you want in power? They strip women, they kill people from other religions. I can only hope there is truth in the saying, "Vinaash kaale, Viprit budhdhi"!
I went to Landmark in the evening, where the first book on your left as you step out of the lift is "The men who killed Gandhi". I pushed back my nausea and leafed through it. It seems to be an account of the events that led a bunch of mentally ill men to plan the assassination of "The Father of the Nation", an over 80 year old man, one whose ideas for India differentiated us on the global map from other countries. The book ends with a photo of the killer and a line that says something to this effect: "... a hero to the millions who believe that he was right in killing Gandhi"!
I am aghast at how such books do not face censorship in India. Are we taking this tolerant attitude, this freedom of speech thing too far? Are we going to allow a generation of youngsters who do not know the truth to read this crap, and believe that Gandhiji deserved to be shot & that that despicable low-life who shot him was a hero??? Like I've said before, History is fair! The likes of fawkes, hitler, booth, oswald & godse will always be remembered as cold-blooded, mentally ill men, but despite that, this book is taking things too far. I'd say give it a miss. The writer doesn't deserve any reading. May he too be remembered as a traitor!
It's been a long day...
June 3rd edit: One commenter said that he's glad that we don't burn effigies like is done on Guy Fawkes Day in the UK. Actually this is a brilliant idea. In India we burn effigies of living politicians as a mark of protest (among more vile things). Nothing should stop us from burning an effigy of godse every 30th January. We will call it the Indian Guy Fawkes Day! We will commemorate the sad loss of India's Greatest Son at the hands of a cold blooded murderer. Who wants to popularize this? Let's start with communities on Orkut & Facebook! We can even request the Brits to burn 2 effigies every Guy Fawkes Day, one of godse added! And we can return the favour by burning a Guy Fawkes effigy! We're in the Commonwealth after all!
I want to understand what godse would've done had he still been around? Would he have denounced raj thakarey for destroying India's unity? No... wait a minute... He didn't murder Gandhiji in the nation's interest. He murdered Gandhiji in the "Hindu" interest.
Even then, would he have publicly chided raj for destroying "Hindu" unity, by targeting "Hindus" from UP & Bihar? No... I don't think so. He would've sided with his state in all probability. So why exactly did The Father of My Nation, a peace loving man, get murdered (& maligned these days) while these rascals get away with murder & are considered demi-Gods?
I think we deserve every bit of trouble that comes to India. If we can't stand up & speak out against what is wrong, if we don't want to do anything about it, if we want to defend murderers & racists, we deserve all this trouble. I can see a civil war coming. With vested interests outside of India feeding on our lack of unity, I can definitely see it coming! Unless we wake up fast. Unless we denounce all these small time crooks & tell them that you cannot tear us Indians apart!
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Dear 1conoclast,
ReplyDeleteI don't think you would have any evidence on behalf of what you can say something like this for a nationalist organization.
Dear Jwalant,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment. I'd be happy to provide evidence if you can mention which point you're referring to & more importantly, which "nationalist" organization?
Hi, thanks for the positive reply.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering about the incident that you have mentioned regarding RSS.
Jwalant,
ReplyDeleteIt happened when I was in school in Rajasthan, about 15-18 years ago. There was quite a furore in the papers, we used to get HT then.
I will try & look for it on the net, but I'm not sanguine of finding a link from that far back.
But if you're keen on knowing what the sangh parivar is capable of you only need to look at their initial opposition to globalization, to western "influence", to women's dresses, to Valentine's Day. They're the opposite of progress & therefore can't be nationalist. Their idea of nation is outdated & facist & divisive not unifying.
They force people to sing Vande Mataram, they ban conversions, which is curbing freedom of religion as enshrined in our constitution. They're anti unity, and anti freedom of choice. That cannot be a nationalist organization.
I'm not even talking about their well documented role in Ayodhya & Gujarat.
If you'd like to read about their misdemeanours you may want to sample Dr. Ram Puniyani, an IIT professor, who runs an anti-communalism organization. You may also like to visit www.countercurrents.org
Regards,
1conoclast.
Dear 1conoclast,
ReplyDeletePersonally, I would not prefer to depend 100% on media reports. I would recommend you to take part in any festival celebrated by RSS or a shakha.
Dear Jwalant,
ReplyDeletePersonally I prefer media reports. The media has the job of investigation & unbiased reporting. They may not do it very well or totally along those lines, but they do it better than someone whose job it is not. Tehelka & IE certainly try & do it the truthful way!
Personally, I'd rather not associate with any rss member or shakha. To me they're the filth & the scum of the Earth.
I'm aware that they started out as an organization that seeked to clean up "Hinduism", but they've become something else altogether. Today, they're a "Hindu" Taliban!
If I am not to believe the media, what do I believe? Word of mouth??? Or Panchjanya? Isn't that also media?
@1conoclast:
ReplyDeleteInteresting post....
If you think long enough, the conspiracy about Sonia Gandhi seems to be pretty close to reality.
:)
And I agree, Laloo, would make one hell of a PM!
C'mon k10...!
ReplyDeleteYou can't be serious. We shouldn't insult the love & marriage of two people by casting despicable aspersions like that on them! She's a brave woman who's made this country her home, she's no Matahari!
If you want to see another conspiracy theory, I'll give you one to think about.
Here you go:
http://1conoclast.blogspot.com/2008/02/could-rss-be-cia-stooge.html
Ha ha,
ReplyDeleteI can not do anything but laugh on a person, who one one side says that media has job of unbiased reporting and when reports are shown says its a conspiracy.
Hey man, come out of the small world and experience it yourself.
Try to see whats truth and not what others want you to see.
It is very easy to argue on someones credibility, but try to praise these instances, if you can:
####
http://in.news.yahoo.com/indianexpress/20080519/r_t_ie_nl_general/tnl-in-a-paharganj-lane-sangh-coaches-ia-aaaedd4_1.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Jaipur/RSS_volunteers_chased_away_ahead_of_Sonias_visit_/articleshow/3044769.cms
####
Don't laugh Jwalant. Keep in mind the old English proverb: He who laughs last, laughs longest! :-)
ReplyDeleteWhich media reports have I called a conspiracy? You're getting very mixed up.
Let's not get into who lives in a small world. I'm confident that it's a discussion you will not be able to handle very well.
As for the rss, I'm sure they're doing good work in pockets. Everyone is nice to someone or the other. Even killers are often nice to their own families, I suppose.
It's their blood-stained, pro-violence "credibility", that the larger part of India & the larger part of the World will never accept.
Sorry, but my only point for these talks is that don't trust whatever is told by others. There are somethings the person can himself decide upon.
ReplyDeleteTry to the things by experiencing them. I am not here to force you to think good about someone, but I do not hesitate to say whats right and whats wrong, and sadly you are wrong when you believe blindly on media reports.
I appreciate that you too do not want to get in to the small world details.
I may not be good in debates, but I have seen things on my own, and would surely recommend you to experience the same on your own. I believe a person should have willingness to see things on his own, about what he his talking so affluently.
Trust toh bhaiya media ko hee karenge. Which media, that I can choose. For example, I don't trust TOI anymore. I go with a blend of IE & other newspapers. NDTV yes. BBC yes. Amnesty International, yes.
ReplyDeletepanchjanya, saamna etc.? NO!
Why do I want to experience drugs for example? I've heard they're bad, I've seen they're bad. Why should I try them?
It's not about being good at debates. It's about being a good human being. Anyone who propogates or supports hate & violence instead of love, acceptance, ahimsa & kindness is not a good human being.
If I have to try anything I'll try Buddhism or Gandhism.
I started commenting on your blog, but it turned out too long, so I ended up posting an article on my site.
ReplyDeleteCheck out the article if you want:
http://www.angryindian.com/2008/05/should-we-ban-books-that-criticize.html
I would disagree with you that we should ban books that critisize Gandhi. There is nothing called "Too Much" freedom of speech.
Though I agree with you that we obsess too much about the Gandhi-Nehru family and that the Sangh parivar is no better, I could not find myself to agree on banning a book that you briefly read and because it went against your "personal opinion"
My name is not relevant and I am the Angry Indian
www.AngryIndian.com
angry indian,
ReplyDeleteI too am an angry Indian. Unfortunately anger in the long term has too many detrimental effects on the angry & society at large.
I don't agree with myself when I ask for a book ban. It's an empassioned plea, a extreme call to create awareness about the issue.
I'm just surprised at how there are no plays or books on Booth or Oswald, presenting their reasons for assassinating Lincoln or Kennedy.
Why does this happen only in India?
Do you have an answer to that AI?
ANd there is something called too much freedom of speech. If I choose to call you names then I am misusing freedom of speech.
RSS propaganda
ReplyDeleteindian,
ReplyDeleteThis one doesn't look like rss stuff. Remember there isn't only 1 group with vested interests.
In addition to that there are people within every religion who are disillusioned with the religion. It doesn't make the religion bad or unfit for human consumption. It just means that the person hasn't understood the religion well, nor the motives of the Prophet Muhammad well.
If, for example, you want to read about his motives in taking his numerous wives, you can start here:
http://1conoclast.blogspot.com/2008/04/jaichoorakkots-question.html
Hinduism is a way of life and not a relegion. It cant be enforced on anyone. Incidentally, I dont anyone including the sangh parivar can take on the mantle of protecting Hinduism-its under no threat incidentally. A better way to 'protecting' it for the Sangh Parivar would be probably to understaing its essence first and then spreading it which goes beyond banning films, dresses and celebrations and ofcourse encouraging fundamentalist tendencies.
ReplyDeleteUtopianthots,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. No religion is in danger really. Judaism still exists, despite people having moved on to Christianity & Islam. Heck we still have a small number of Zoroasterians around. They may all die, but the philosophy, the religion will not die.
The thing to understand is that "Hinduism" isn't the religion. The religion was & should be called "Snatan Dharma". It is a collection of excellent teachings and no caste system, sati, idol worship etc was recommended in it. These are ills that have come into the society that it's illiterate followers live in.
It is the same with any religion. The religion teaches them peace & they want to blow up people, and they misunderstand & quote verses from the holy books to back their claims. The fact is that they've totally misunderstood the books!
You're right. Any idealist usually is. :-)
How would YOU feel if we had invaded arabia,broke the kaaba,built a RAM temple there,raped saudi women and humiliated them for 1000 years and cleansed muslims from arabia.
ReplyDeleteThat is how we feel about islam,pak,kashmir and bangladesh
anonymous...
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't feel much really. Saudi isn't my country. India is. I don't feel much for what is happening in Myanmar or in Tibet. I feel compassion, but I don't feel strongly about it. What do I have to do with Saudi?
Also, what you are doing is confusing political wars with religion. India's invaders were many. Aryans, Greeks, Turks, Brits, etc. They all came here to loot or rule. In earlier times, it was a show of power to break down whatever stood before the invaders took over. The Aryans & the Greeks did it too. Unfortunately you have not been taught to look at that.
Unfortunately, the rapes you speak of still happen in every war till today. You can't blame only one community for war crimes when everyone has done it from times immemorial.
And what humiliation are you talking about? You seem to be missing the good points altogether?
The fact that Akbar's son was half Rajput & that Shahjahan had 3/4th Rajput blood. Is that called humiliation or respect? Or have you been taught to ignore the good altogether?
As for the word cleansing, you will have to refer to my post again. What do you define as "cleansing"?
I hope the techie from Gurgaon who said something disrespectful about Madam SoniaJI learns a lesson and now onwards says only good & respectful stuff about her and her Party and her family.
ReplyDeleteI don't think banning that book is a good idea, we need better Movies, books and TV serials on Gandhi, instead of religious epics.
I have also read comments against girls wearing Jeans, pro-sati, anti-valentine day celebration etc made by Sangh Parivaar and Shiv Sena. Can't stand both.
I have seen Advani being accepted as the next PM by many bloggers/reporters, Lalu is anyday better. Haven't heard him talk against other religions/girls in jeans/valentines day celebration/western culture/choice of religion to follow etc. And will the Biharis in Mumbai love him? I don't think so. I spoke with my carpenter who said, sadly, "things are just cooling down and now they're again stirring things by performing chat pooja". I don't think he'll get their votes. But he's better than Advani. Any day.
IHM,
ReplyDeleteMay God bless you & your children. May He grant you all, Health, Wealth, Safety, Security, Prosperity, Contentment & Happiness!
May your tribe increase!
I would like to ask those who think that RSS and its publications are hate-filled, divisive and should be banned. Should the koran be also banned because it also advocates hatred against non-muslims, to kill non-muslims?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous...
ReplyDeleteWhere does the Koran say what you are claiming?
I'll tell you what the Koran says. Here's an excerpt from a forthcoming post:
A Muslim is bound to follow the 10 commandments. One of them is, ‘Thou shalt not kill.’… but self-defence is allowed, & there are more Hindus than Muslims in the Armed Forces, I’m sure. Those who kill people just because they are Hindus, are not Muslims. The Quran has clearly asked the people to show respect to other religions, lest others disrespect theirs. Even the prophets who had been asked to teach & guide the people are told that it is not their responsibility if people do not listen. Their job was only to tell, to offer their teachings. The trouble is that people wish to take away your right even to talk, to teach, preach, or offer a contrary view to what you are used to in your family, so that you can go on with your wrong-doings(slavery, killing of girls at birth, untouchability – I’d even like to add idolatory, but naturally, I daren’t!)& pass it on generation after generation.
I will put up the whole post shortly for your benefit.
Anonymous...
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that I've never understood is this comparision whenever confronted with a problem. A very childish "usne bhi toh kya tha"...
The question isn't whether the Quran recommends something or not. The question is is what the rss doing evil. And the answer to that question is yes, irrespective of anything else.
Anyway, here's another one for you:
For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that WHOEVER SLAYS A SOUL, UNLESS IT BE FOR MANSLAUGHTER OR FOR MISCHIEF IN THE LAND, IT IS AS THOUGH HE SLEW ALL MEN; AND WHOEVER KEEPS IT ALIVE, IT IS AS THOUGH HE KEPT ALIVE ALL MEN.”*
--- --(The Quran; verses 27-32; Part 6; Chapter 2; The Family of Imran)
Mosis believe in punishment in this life also, but the Hindus – many of them at least, believe in ‘Ahimsa’, ‘predestination’, ‘karma’ from previous lives, which is responsible for man’s actions – right or wrong – in this life. Non-violence won’t allow them to kill a man-eating tiger, leave alone psychopaths.
Anyway, I’m adding this quote, too. So called jihad, I now feel is basically seen by Mosis as that virtue, which will enable a man not to shirk his duty through fear, or love for a life of ease, when grave wrongdoing is taking place around him in society against man, his people, his freedom of belief etc.
Some sefish, misguided Mosis could certainly be misusing such teachings, but the wrong sorts, twist everything to suit their selfish ends - & such sorts are not unique to our community; they are Godless people, & shouldn't be considered believers of any religion.)
“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned
This shall be a disgrace for them in this world
And in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement
EXCEPT THOSE WHO REPENT BEFORE YOU HAVE THEM IN YOUR POWER.
So know that Allah is forgiving, Merciful.
--(The Quran; verses 33-34; Part 6; Chapter 2; The Family of Imran)
I hope things are a little clearer now? If not, ask me.
I am with you in the burning an effigy- I would also burn an effigy of all the "nationalist" Hindu hardliners.
ReplyDelete@lankr1ta,
ReplyDeleteThanks. Let me know when you're doing it. I'll join in.
Let's start a party called Vidrohi. We will burn effigies of every Deshdrohi!
Excellent post. Made me feel I was reading my own thoughts except that burning effigy bit...no body cares about such books, nobody reads or should read them, why make this fellow well known. We anyway burn the effigy of Ravana and his brothers every year....and unnecessarily create pollution.
ReplyDeleteBut I will join Virodhi to create awareness against divisive politics, and terrible dangers of it- VHP, Hindutva, BJP, Raj Thakre, Modi- we need to open our eyes to what they are doing. Like Modi won after the riots because he created such terror and hatred in Hindu majority. Gujrat was a peaceful state until he did this. Shiv Sainiks did the same thing in Bombay...the voter and the aam admi hates and fears violence and they made him fear there would be retaliatory violence if they lost.
Reading such posts gives me some hope for this country.
Couldn't resist commenting again :)
ReplyDeleteIHM,
ReplyDeleteThank you very much. You don't know how much it pleases me to know that people like you exist. And that we are not alone in how we think & want to act.
God bless you.
Reading your comments & alankrita's gives me hope for the country too!
:-)