In the unlikeliest of places, I discovered a poet in me!
Sample this:
swati swati full of bile,
every prophet you revile,
learn your lessons pretty fast,
lies & darkness do not last!
or this:
ah my effort you do mime,
yet your poem does not rhyme,
discomfort I do not feel,
your “wrong” allegations are an easy meal,
to back my word, there’s proof replete,
and seas of victory lap at my feet,
the truth just is! it can never be bent,
you are a mere “voice of dissent”!
and this:
swati while you’re wrong ’bout much,
you’re really not that bad as such…
“Love, peace and Joy are what we need”
right you are! you are indeed!!
come let us dream of a world that’s one,
and this really, truly has been fun!
I must not forget to give credit to swati who in a strange way inspired this. I'd have linked to her blog if she had one; but for now I will have to just link to the conversation where it all began. Enjoy!
oink...
Bluster doen't help. I gave you reasons. Now that you don't have an answer, you're resorting to personal attack. It doesn't offend me one bit since it's coming from you & not from anyone who matters. The reasons don't change. Here they are again!
Your lack of an intelligent response exposes you for the semi-literate, unenlightened soul you are at this moment in time. Hopefully you will use your free time to educate yourself on multiple cultures & religions. A hint: Go to the source instead of relying on people maligning it.
contentious,
Thank you for your admission here. Your admission is refreshingly honest & brave (in the face of hindutva elements who will now gun for you)!
You are probably right about the Wiki editing by closet (or not so closet) hindutvis. The words are surprisingly similar.
So what do we do with this "illumined consciousness"? Do we use it in our country, or have we totally discarded it?
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why is it that i dont see my previous comment, not worthy enuff to be visible on your blog, is it
ReplyDeletecontentious...
ReplyDeleteWill you please abandon your jumping to conclusions approach to exercise once & for all...?
If I am publishing this comment of yours, what would make me not publish any other? Unless it's abusive or something.
Have you considered the possibility that your comment may not have been saved by the site for some reason.
Please resubmit it again & if it isn't abusive or something, it will get published.
I have far more effective ways to exercise, thank you very much. This is the second time my comment did not see the light of the blog, so the totally biased irrational soul that I am, I asked u a totally biased irrational question.
ReplyDeleteNot that its important that it appears here, but it was just a few words representing my thoughts...so here goes for whatever its is worth....
"A collective "illumined conciousness" is hard to achieve.
It is a personal struggle with our inner self to unshackle itself from the narrow limits of mundane rules,rituals,.....to unleash that divinity which exists among each one of us, to harmonize self with our environment. That by itself entails prodigious amount of introspection and mental energy. To even think extending this notion to our country, any country for that matter, is in the realm of fantasy, however much we may hanker for it."
I have far more effective ways of exercising, thank you very much.
ReplyDeleteThis is the second time that my comment did not c the light of your blog and so the totally biased irrational soul that I am, I asked a totally biased irrational question.
It is not important that my comment be visible here, it was just a few words which represented a view, so here goes for what it is worth.....
"A collective "illumined conciousness" is hard to achieve.
It is a personal struggle with our inner self to unshackle itself from the narrow limits of mundane rules,rituals,.....to unleash that divinity which exists among each one of us, to harmonize self with our environment. That by itself entails prodigious amount of introspection and mental energy. To even think extending this notion to our country, any country for that matter, is in the realm of fantasy, however much we may hanker for it."
Well contentious,
ReplyDeleteIt looks like you submitted your comments twice this time, just to be sure I think, & I've published both of them to make up for the loss of the earlier one. :-)
Let me know which of the two you'd like removed.
Jokes apart, I didn't mean to be mean to my guest. Apologies. Atithi dev bhav:
Thank you for commenting.
I get that it's difficult for us or any nation for that matter to achieve collective illumined consciousness. My point was that people like you & me seem to at least understand what it is, if not possess it. Why do we then have to argue about whether MFH was wrong or not? Why despite Kali's depiction (& I believe others' as well), do we take a stand that is contrary to this illumined consciousness.
Please feel free to delete either or both, which ever your mood or illumined consciousness (beta version) permits u to. :)
ReplyDeleteMFH presented a representation of Saraswati in nude which is a total antithesis for what the goddess stands for by any extreme of artistic expression. It hurts the sentiments of some ,offended some others especially when the the contrast/bias shines thru. And they vocalized it. Whats wrong with that. Ofcourse the whole issue spiraled out of proportion, thats another story.
I personally don't really care coz a pictorial representation doesnt mean/demean anything. But for the sake of debate wanted to understand WHY he chose to exercise his artistic freedom/genius (?) in this fashion. No logic in art ? or sensationalization? or such art sells? or a biased thought process? or a need to provoke/ stick his tongue out at a certain section? or dementia set in? or he is tired of life/suicidal? or just bored/wanted to be in the heart of a controversy?...take your pick or add a few more....donno?
Unfortunately most of us are too immersed in the mundane to rise above all this towards an illumined conciousness!
contentious,
ReplyDeleteProbably a few of the reasons you've mentioned. Maybe even all. No one will know for sure what was going on in his mind.
On the other hand he may be innocent of all the reasons that you've come up with.
I'm as much in the dark as you are.
I personally believe that he may be a little closer than we are, to the "illumined consciousness" we're talking about. He for sure is not immersed in the mundane.
Sure if illumined consciousness is tantamount to a quirky "bairagi" personna, quite a few may qualify !
ReplyDeleteDo you see no similarity at all...? Didn't you define it as "unshackle the inner self from the narrow limits of mundane rules,rituals..."?
ReplyDeleteI'm not playing any games. Seriously, explain please.
a counter question...do you view being an iconoclast equivalent to having illumined conciousness.
ReplyDeletehe by definition (of his vocation) does need to unshackle his mind of the mundane to unlease his creative energy......we have a satish gujral to keep him company.
top of my head, sant kabir comes to mind...closest to illumined conciousness
Well contentious...
ReplyDeleteIf unshackling is the criterion, I suppose iconoclasm does entail unshackling the mind from long held & falsely held beliefs. The constant questioning that Dayananda & Vivekananda, Buddha underwent? The ijtihad that Islam recommends?
So... iconoclasm... One small step towards illumination?
If nudity is symbolic of unchackling & that of illumined consciousness, then could MFH's being barefoot possibly suggest a tiny degree of illumination.
I'm not suggesting that that any of us are even close to Kabir...
http://www.mfhussain.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=3
ReplyDelete1con, do read/skim the above if inclination/time permits.
Agreed about the correlation b/w iconoclasm and illumined conciousness. Does Hussain's barefoot "style" fall under this defintion of iconoclasm?
http://rainbownation.tribe.net/thread/11cdc3b0-9c0d-4344-a65b-34351c44310c
ReplyDeleteanother piece towards quest for "illumined conciousness" :)
contentious,
ReplyDeleteCan't open the second link for some reason. Can you check it please?
I did breeze through the first one. I'm not sure I get the connection clearly.
1. Is the point you're trying to make, suggesting that MFH's being barefoot is mere style & that's all there is to it?
2. MFH's being barefoot, as in naked to a certain degree (not totally like Kali), could that be interpreted as one small step towards illumined consciousness?
"Living barefoot 24/7/365 I’m spending lot’s of time travelling, and I’m ALWAYS travelling barefoot. It’s an exciting experience to roam around without any footwear in my backpack, trusting in my leather-like soles toughened over many years. And it’s definitely the most environment-friendly way of travelling. For the last few month, my leathery soles got exposed to the hot streets of South India! It’s true: Black tarmac can get quite hot on a sunny day. But being an experienced long-time barefooter, I’m even able to stroll around at noon or in the early afternoon without feeling uncomfortable. And obviously, I’m not the only one: Visit Kerala or Tamil Nadu and you’ll see loads of barefoot people in the streets, especially in rural areas but also in the cities! I’ve met people (online, not on the road) trying to convince me that my barefoot lifestyle is actually “offensive” IN THE INDIAN CONTEXT. My habit of walking barefoot is “a sign of disrespect” considering that I’m obviously able to “afford shoes” - that’s how they argue… Well, I feel: THAT’S CRAP! Fortunately, freeing their feet from imprisonment isn’t a privilege of the poor! At least in South India… Many people down here CAN afford footwear - buying a pair of flip-flops isn’t a big deal anyway, except you’re virtually penniless - but opt for a barefoot life ‘cause they feel more comfortable, consider the therapeutical aspects (high blood pressure, reflex zones…) or simply don’t see a point in using a few straps of leather or plastic to confine their feet. Let me remind you what M.F. Hussain, India’s celebrated modern painter (a multimillionaire - crorepati!) says about his OWN habit of going barefoot EVERYWHERE: “It started for purely health reasons. As acupressure is great for the feet I opted out of footwear. And as a result even today I can sit for long hours on the floor .It is almost 40 years now that I am barefoot. Earlier people laughed. Now they have accepted me as I am. I even go to Parliament without shoes. In fact in our country removing your footwear is a mark of respect. Be it at home or a place of worship we go in barefoot.” By the way: In India itself I’m hardly encountering ANY negative reaction! People are only curious if they see a foreigner strolling around barefoot. Some ARE concerned, but only because they think I’m not experienced enough! It’s not that difficult to convince them….."
ReplyDeletesorry some problem in the second link. the above was all i could retrieve from another source.please note MF Hussain's reasons for going barefoot. there seems to be quite a few who go barefoot 7/24/365, including some celebrities ranging from sportstars/hunky models/actors/musicians.the author of that piece had been barefoot for 6 yrs when he wrote that piece
ReplyDeleteThe first link is just a comprehensive essay bordering on the abstruse on what makes MFH what he is (in view of the author ofcourse)
ReplyDeleteNote the following part:
"It will not be hard to bring to bear upon Husain’s habit of walking about on naked feet some pietistic or fatuous symbolic reading: that he commiserates with the poverty-stricken masses of India, or that he "expresses" his Indian-ness through this act of remaining in contact with the soil of India. To say so would be merely to attribute to the man qualities of mind he doubtlessly possesses; but it would inevitably obscure yet another aspect of his personality--especially his artistic personality--his ‘style’ or, more accurately, his sense of style."
Sorry for the multiple parts of my response:
ReplyDeleteMy point is that while I dont deny the MFH is an artist and individual extraordinaire with prodigious contributions, just his being barefooted CANNOT be equated to being closer or a tiny step towards illumined conciousness. hope u can see some connection now :)
1conoclast,
ReplyDeleteplease feel free to delete my earlier comments of today....in retrospect thought they were kinda long winded to convey just a simple opinion
No problem contentious.
ReplyDeleteI am of a slightly unshackled mind (thanks in no small measure to you). I can therefore see the link between bare & barefeet. ;-)
now that all has been bared we should continue forward on sound footing, unshackled, in our quests towards illumined conciousness, barefooted or NOT. :p
ReplyDeleteAren't we contentious...?
ReplyDeletecontentious...
ReplyDeleteTell me a little more about yourself. I'd like to know who you are & what contributes to making you the person you are.
Is there a blog?
no blog, too lazy or perhaps inertia (well did some framing etc and left it at that)
ReplyDeleteam too boring :),no point knowing more about me, however little.
OOoh so there is another plane of existance here. LOL. Never believed in really digging too deep so never found this.
ReplyDeleteWhich woman wouldn't like to inspire poetry? haha. But of this kind? Now that you know my thoughts a bit better, Icon, I hope you'll write the last verse..the MAQTA if you please.
http://www.urdupoetry.com/sahir31.html
Ek nazar idhar bhi.
Cheers!
Swati
Boss, This is a bit unnerving...why would you carry something from a public blog into a personal one? I never looked here before...
ReplyDeleteYeah I have my own blog with very personal views in it, but I am not comfy sharing it with the kinds that visit Mutiny somehow...generally speaking..if you know what I mean.
- Anonymous (Swati),
ReplyDelete:-) That's why I've always urged you to dig deeper. Deeper is always desirable, isn't it? One of my favourite songs is "Higher Ground". Do you recall the words?
Dunno what maqta is, but the last verses are of agreement aren't they? Maybe I don't get what you're saying. As usual...? :-)
I left a few links for you on the "Hindu Rashtra" forum. Check them out & let me know what you think.
__________________________________
- Anonymous (leave a name please?),
I'm not sure if I get your point. I'm on the web to be heard, aren't I?
Yeah, I wouldn't like the right-wing lunatics to come here, but I have the option of comment moderation here. :-)
anonymous (above) is swati, did u not get that :)
ReplyDeleteOh that was my post too...the second anonymous one.I didn't realise I was mentioned here...is what I mean.
ReplyDeleteToo deep isn't good. Landslides. Have you heard 'New York Mining Disaster' by the Beegees?
If you enjoy urdu, then look up Maqta under 'ghazal'. Yeah last verse was ok...:)
..Swati
http://almizan.org/new/special/principles.asp
ReplyDeleteRead, I'd rather not comment
No contentious... I didn't. :-(
ReplyDeleteSo many people choose to go the anon commenter route it's difficult to keep track.
Swati,
Thanks for using your name to comment. It's a great relief to be able to talk like this!
LOL! Too deep is not the same thing as deeper. (I'm not liking the sound of this conversation...!)
I enjoy Urdu poetry, but my limited vocabulary & limited grasp of poetry make it difficult for me to understand. Spare me the research, your turn to educate me! ;-)
Thanks.
You switched to Anon again!!!!!!!!!
Anyway, I thought we were discussing poetry. How're we back to the Quran. That's a rather long essay there. Do you know what the jist says?
Did you go thru the links on the other forum?
I didn't switch. The damn comment left my screen before I knew it lol.
ReplyDeleteWhen u become fond enough of poetry, I guess you'll volunatarily dig deeper.
Could you re-post those links u're talking about here?
What is the jist acc to u?
Swati,
ReplyDelete:-)
Glad you're back.
I looked it up. More curious than lazy.
Reposting to the forum. If that doesn't help, let me know. Here:
http://forum.mutiny.in/topic/should-india-become-a-hindu-rashtra
Don't know the jist. Didn't read it yet. Like I said it's rather lengthy & a lesser area of interest than vocabulary. Tell me the jist. Why play games? We're past that aren't we?
Achcha read this, if we're digressing anyway...:
http://www.countercurrents.org/mahadevan201008.htm
Boss,honestly,right now is a bad time...busy juggling about 10000 things tho this is irresistible. Will check and reply as and when possible???
ReplyDeleteSwati,
ReplyDeleteDo that.
Since you found the time to comment here, I'm responding to it.
How can you not see the link between change & conversion??? Conversion involves a change, doesn't it?
Whether I "grow up to be responsible" on my own OR out of fear/rewards, in both cases I have effected a change in my attitudes & lifestyle. In both cases i have changed. Or converted.
It's very very simple logic for me to see.
Your stance on not allowing others "to resolve our gray areas for us" is noble, but precludes any help of any sort, doesn't it?
Recruitment agents, Doctors, Therapists, Teachers, Friends, Family...
Like I asked earlier, arguing for argument's sake now?
No, not at all. I had no reservations about adopting a few things I learnt from Islam...on ORKUT of all places. But finally it is about accepting voluntarily. But I didn't do it to please anyone and nobody could make me see it but myself.
ReplyDeleteThere is no need to 'convert' in order to adopt values from another religion. You can change the way you think without changing labels. That is all they are...labels.
Your example of wanting to convert to Christianity in order to pray without rituals connected to Hinduism and Islam is again flawed. You can remain Muslim and pray to Allah in much the same fashion. Where does Islam forbid you?
My prayer to God must be from my heart in my own words..I know now that I don't need a priest to convey my message in Sanskrit. I've changed...not converted.
I am sure by now you get my drift if not point. Thanks.
..and yes I have had the time to reply there..but not to read the longish essays in the links. I will..when time permits.
Swati,
ReplyDeleteSorry I took so long to come back. Was busy educating people on Mutiny.
You don't need to convince me of your openness to other religions. I can see that you're fairly forward looking. You do sometimes say things that shatter that image & construct an entirely opposite one, but all of us do that. I know I do. Nobody's perfect.
I agree that there is no need to convert to accept the good from other religions. Yet some people convert. It is their wish to do so. It doesn't make us right & them wrong. Just like there are believers, agnostics & atheists, there are irreligious people, spiritual people & very religious people. Those who feel the need for a religion in their life instead of mere values, will convert.
My Christianity fascination waned as I grew up. It was on account of the fact that my Mom told me that I have the freedom to choose whatever religion I wanted to follow (me being 50% each of Hindu & Muslim). I didn't feel attracted to either "practise" as I'd seen the flaws up close. I'd seen less of the Christian "practise" & was attracted to it's simplicity & to the message of Jesus. (Hinduism unfortunately has no documented central message & I'd never taken an interest in Islam's message.)
But all that passed. I remained unaligned to any religion. I was content with Bacchanalia.
Now I am older & (hopefully) I know a little more about religion & God. I know that the practise is different from the message. AND I know that the message cannot but be the same.
And yes, you're right. A Muslim/Hindu can go down on his knees & pray in his heart in English, like in a Church. That wouldn't make him any less "Muslim" or "Hindu".
Unless of course there is an idol in front of you. THAT would disqualify you from Islamic or Arya Samaji practise!
The issue here is with the interpretation & how conservative you want to be.
I will really look forward to your response to the links. Read the poetry yet?
I sense a defensive, backfoot stance.
ReplyDeleteI sense an idiot in you who has reading comprehension problems and allows imagined political leanings of others to influence his thinking. :-)
-kaffir
Anonymous (-kaffir),
ReplyDelete:-)
What made you run from that forum to this one?
Anyway, since we're playing this game, let's go:
I sense, in you, someone with an inability to accept when he is beaten... at his own game!
Can we do without the "idiot" etc? I very nearly didn't publish this comment because of that. I thought it fair that I should warn you.
Your resorting to name-calling also makes me sense your increasing frustration.
How long do you wanna do this?
What made you run from that forum to this one?
ReplyDeleteHuh? What forum are you talking about??
-kaffir
:-)
ReplyDeleteFigure it out.
Figure what out? The feverish imaginations and delusions of your mind? Naa baba naa.
ReplyDelete(-:
Anonymous (-kaffir?),
ReplyDeleteWhat I LIKE is the fact that you've gone from confidently spouting Wiki links on Logic in multiple comments etc., to single line tentative jabs deviod of any reference to logic.
Cheers mate. :-)
I am not able to use the links. Request you to repost them please. Have been away for a while and a bit disoriented. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteUnless of course there is an idol in front of you. THAT would disqualify you from Islamic or Arya Samaji practise!
ReplyDelete...
No, that is my prerogative.Practice has nothing to do with faith...mostly...if it did, we'd have no Muslim terrorists or hindutvis. I don't see a GOD refusing me that right. I don't take instructions from other human beings on how to pray. That idol or candle or direction of a monument to an alien rock is my choice...not God's..and if I can see that clearly, I am not misled.
Swati,
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely right on above. I wish more people would see the irritation they would make someone feel by "correcting" their religion. But I guess they feel the urge to speak out like we do.
There's a problem with the links. I've asked Mutiny to repair them. Check again in a bit please.
Read the first two poems. Poetry is not only about meter or rhyme or about thoughts even. It is an interweaving of a lot of things...which produces something special. Chai sabb log banaate hain, par kuch log bohat achee chai banaate hain. There is a difference..the same chai patti, cheeni, paani and doodh can result in many different brews.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if I'm making sense and wont mind if you don't let this post appear...par native Indian is trying hard...the thoughts are lovely..weaving mein magic nahi..abhi takk. Honest and humble opinion.
Read this...by Faiz.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.urdupoetry.com/faiz37.html
It is not a romantic poem...instead it is about the pak bangla split.
or the popular
http://www.urdupoetry.com/faiz11.html
Weaving magic with words.
Thanks Swati.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand poetry one bit. I just go by whether it sounds good to the ear & whether it has a beautifully expressed thought. Kehte hain ki Ghalib ka hai andaaz-e-bayaan aur types.
What I like about NativeIndian's poetry is the fact it has thought & it is beginning to mature on the andaaz-e-bayaan bit. This is most evident in the 4 links I put up.
I agree with you that it's not great tea that's being made here. But if you consider Faiz great, then NativeIndian doesn't have a chance of matching up yet! This is a poet who only started about a year back!
If however, you're looking for a relative novice who can already express deep thought well enough, it makes for interesting reading.
Apart from the poetry, I also wanted you to pay attention to the varied India specific, peace & unity focused content.
par native Indian is trying hard...the thoughts are lovely..weaving mein magic nahi..abhi takk. Honest and humble opinion.
ReplyDelete...
From my last post. :)
I've been trying unsuccessfully to write one ghazal to my own satisfaction for 5 years now...so am not yet in a place to pass any smug comment. I do like what he's trying to convey.
Swati...
ReplyDeleteIn my very very limited experience there are 3 kinds of poets: Good Poets, No Poets & those who are trying very hard to go from the latter to the former.
This is true in case of every poet I know. It's not unusual for a poet to be in transition.
I'm like the Bollywood fan. Kam mein qhush. :-D