Somehow Trailblazer has got it into his head that I am waging some kind of a blog-war against him.
Upset by the reactions to one of his recent posts, he has enabled comment moderation (which he should have had on in the first place!), though his doing so & his reasons for doing so now are indicative of his very young age.
Anyway, he's a guy I very much like. And this is to tell him (in response to his"Saturday, February 7, 2009 12:02:00 AM PST" comment):
Trailblazer,
- I logged into Google Adsense & blocked the 2 offending URL's that were being advertised on my blog.
Total Boycott of the offending people! Freedom Movement style! :-)
- I know you hate them as much. I've stated that in my earlier comment.
- One last thing to think about:
Yes Pakistan is in deep trouble. Political assassinations, corrupt leaders, areas under the strong influence of the Taliban.
Yes their cities like Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad are racked by bomb blasts.
But don't people bravely carry on in those cities like they do in ours? Aren't their cricketers playing cricket happily, corrupt businessmen doing business happily as well?
Now consider India: Political assassinations, corrupt leaders (like the one in the ads), areas under strong influence of taliban like bodies (gujarat, orissa, karnataka?)
Bombay, Delhi, Jaipur carry on bravely despite bomb blasts. Our cricketers play cricket & corrupt businessmen conduct business.
What is the difference really? Are we really that different?
Just think for a moment. When we say America (or pakistan) has immense social issues, aren't those statements as generic as the one against India that you are protesting?
PS: Good latest post. And fantastic twitter link on the upper right hand side of your blog! :-) :-)
Keep writing.
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Well, I think disagreeing is becoming a habit now with me and you.
ReplyDeleteEven if I do agree with all of your specific comparisons (except Gujarat and Karnataka. 1con, I've lived 8 years in Gujarat and 1 year in Karnataka. I know those states are as safe as any other states in India. On what basis you made this comparison baffles me. Ah! Of course, the BJP.), there is no way I can agree with your generalized comparison of difference.
So, India sends armed gangs via boats to Karachi and kill innocents.
So, India encourages insurgency from the border.
So, India is controlled by the Army-RAW combine.
So, India is not truly democratic with elections held every five years.
So, India is not the world's second fastest growing superpower.
I guess the more you read Arundhati Roy, the more you seem to be sounding like her.
Because the truth is that India may not be a utopian place or even as good as the US or other Western states in terms of standard of living. But India is by far the best country in the world to still stay united and rise above many the highest number of divisions to keep functioning as a democracy.
How many years have we lived under dictatorial rule?
How many coup-d-etats have we had?
Why do I get the feeling that you are so blinded by your hate for the BJP, that you even ignore India's achievements to make a comparison with Pakistan, of all the countries in the world.
And you also say you are patriotic. I think it is our patriotic duty to show India in the right light, isn't it?
Show what is wrong with India. I've no problems with that. But at least dont make it so ridiculous that you go all out and compare India with failed states.
Why not Trailblazer?
ReplyDelete2 intelligent minds will engage in debate often. You should visit my house! You'll think we fight all the time. It's just that there are so many intelligent & impassioned opinions flying around that it seems like a constant free for all! You know my background, you can imagine...! :-D
First things first. Did I say we're EXACTLY like them? NO. I asked whether we were really that different?
Now on to your points:
- See, THAT's my point! Despite the 1969 & 2002 etc. incidents in Gujarat & others in Orissa & Karnataka, they're still by & large safe to live in. Daily life goes on.
Similarly with Sri Lanka. And similarly with pakistan!
- We don't know what India encourages there. We have only heard about RAW being active there, but since we live here instead of there, we don't hear much about it.
- I don't read much Arundhati Roy, but sounding like her is a compliment nonetheless. :-)
- There's no harm in talking like a student fresh out of college. It is that idealism that is missing in our World today. By all means, love your country, but don't be blind to it's faults. Ignoring the faults will not make them go away! That is probably the purpose that people like Ms. Roy fulfil. Open the eyes of people who are ashamed of our dirty linen being washed in public...
- We've not lived under dictatorial rule, or had coups, but we've had an emergency. (Not to forget that there are enough idiots out there who clamour for military rule in India, or clamour for us to go to war, or the accused rogue officers like purohit who dream of creating a religion-based nation with help from Israel & Thailand!) We can talk about all of that & more but that isn't what you or I were discussing...
We were discussing whether it is totally inaccurate to compare India to pak, vis a vis the rise of religious extemism, whether it was apt to suggest that we were risking getting talibanised.
I think you will find that on those counts, it's not that far-fetched a comparision.
- I was taught in my working years that acknowledging that there is a problem is the first step to fixing it. My patriotism follows the same logic.
- Don't get all hyper. Hyperbole is a valid figure of speech, at a writer's disposal.
Some of us refer to our ultra-conservative, regressive, women-beating, virulent religious extremist groups euphemistically as rightist. Some of us use hyperbole to drive the point home! Aren't India's religious classics full of mythical hyperbole? The 10 heads & 20 hands of Ravan?
- Be a patriot, but don't get so emotional about it that you blind yourself to the internal dangers we face.
Your turn.
You may also want to refer to an earlier one.
ReplyDeleteApart from my consistency, it should also tell you a little about how when one feels passionately for the state of one's country, one says & does a lot! In America they burn flags!
You may also want to sample these:
ReplyDeleteMy rant when I moved to Pune.
I also write this.
Read before you come to a judgement on whether people like me only write about the ills about Pune or India or shahrukh or anything else!
At least my blind nationalism makes me understand what is wrong with Arundhati Roy.
ReplyDeleteIt's simple, 1con. You read a page of Arundhati Roy. You spot words like "Babri", "Gujarat" and "RSS/BJP" and become all charged up with hate and hail Ms. Roy, whom you then go on to label a gem who raises questions that make us uncomfortable. When you do this, you turn a blind eye to the fact that she uses lies to get her point across. Now surely, 1con, no crusader for the truth should use lies to get her points across.
That's why I read people like Greatbong and Nitin Pai who are not blinded by hate in their pursuits. And you again, without caring to fully read what they write are quick to label them.
It's a pity but maybe, just maybe, there seem to be a lot of things that I've understood at 22 that you fail to understand at 33.
Trailblazer,
ReplyDeleteAnd my open-eyed nationalism can see clearly that targeting Arundhati Roy is just taking away focus from the problems that the right-wing has created for the country! :-)
Nothing is simple TB. We've been exchanging emails & comments for about a month now. You don't present any links or proof, only opinions fed to you by 2 bit bloggers, instead of stalwarts in their fields. If it was that simple, you'd have done a better job by now.
What you're doing is over-simplifying...
I don't read Ms. Roy. I can't read her. She's fairly verbose. But I get the gist of what she's saying. And I don't care if right-wingers with a collective IQ of 40, don't get what she's saying.
Surely TB, making tall claims (about Ms. Roy lying) without presenting any proof, is no way to blaze a trail...? ;-)
Between them, it's clear that Ms. Roy is the Greater Bong. And nitin who??? What's he done??? Write a blog that often betrays right-wing sympathies? That's his achievement? WOW! You expect me to be impressed...?
ChHorh na yaar... I'm talking to someone who holds a 2 bit blogger in greater esteem than a hugely respected IIT Professor & crusader for peace & tolerance! It really is a pity...
That last line of yours is classic 22 year old stuff. The truth is that at 22 you're gullible & as I've proved to you over & over again, totally bereft of facts. It was I who gave you the link to the Tehelka report. It was I who corrected your information on Sehrunnisa Shaikh. It was I that gave you the rebuttal to Tavleen Singh. You were always the gullible one who believed anything that anyone told you about Teesta or Arundhati.
Hopefully, when you're 33, you'll have learnt how to look up facts on Google.
The links are all out there on Google. I've searched everything through Google only. NOBODY HAS EVER TOLD ME ANYTHING. I form my opinion on my OWN. Not Nitin, Not greatbong, or even Mohib Ahmad (of IndianMuslims.in, who is equally good). Not Vinod Sharma, not krishna, not kislay.
ReplyDeleteThe "two-bit unknown"(What a shameful term indeed. So, a person should appear on television and write novels to speak credible truth, eh?) bloggers that you talk about are the ones who bring out the lies of Ms. Roy and Ms. Setalvad. And these men also bring out the truth of Modi and co.
Hugely respected IIT professor? If you read that piece of the Acorn I sent, you will notice that the Acorn has used a mathematical theory (the Bayes theorem) to prove Mr. Puniyani wrong. Dont even read the post. Just read the comments later on in the post. Mr. Puniyani has replied back.
Surely, for once I could believe that the Acorn may be right-sympathetic. But at least, mathematics is above being an RSS/BJP/VHP sympathizer, isn't it?
At 22, I'm sensible enough(according to you) to believe what the BJP's communalism is. But at 22, I'm also sensible enough(not according to you) to believe how the leftists go wrong. And it is not necessary that only the leftists can expose the rightists and should hence be cheered. The leftists could be pretty wrong themselves. And they are.
Even when i want to read exposes of rightists, I find them with Greatbong, Nitin Pai and Mohib Ahmad. Advani's secularism exposed here. An anti-Modi piece here. Retributions with a piece "Why Modi should go?".
In fact, you are so cautious about some of the wrongs of leftists being read by others, that when you transferred a previous comment(with 4 links) of mine from your "Questions for ratan, sunil, anal" post to your So is the BJP good for anything at all? post, you removed all links to the posts.
Blogger allows us to moderate comments (as I discovered when attempting to moderate comments on my blog, which I've withdrawn now as free speech loses essence.).
I did read tehelka. In fact, I'd purchased a copy of the magazine just because I wanted to know the truth. But when i see it is so one-sided, I'm not too impressed. Hence, my conclusions. And I still do believe that modi is responsible too.
Ceasefire. :-)
A major reason for calling this off is not because of disagreements. I disagree with you on many things and will maintain my stand.
ReplyDeleteIt's because I cannot defend the BJP. And inadvertently, I've done just that over these discussions.
I had promised myself that no matter how nationalist BJP becomes or talks of getting Kashmir back from Pakistan and China, I cannot support them because of Babri and Gujarat. These were moral failures for which they are accountable and I dont see justice being done anywhere.
The day BJP outgrows Hindutva completely and Advani and Modi are made accountable to law, could be the day I find myself siding with them.
You are right that the focus is shifting away from the right wing's problems. It remains my desire that you take a closer look at Arundhati Roy before endorsing her as your anti-Right icon.
Regards.
TB,
ReplyDelete:-)
I've finally got you almost where I wanted you!
STEP 1: Thank you for providing a plethora of links.
STEP 2: Can we please avoid quoting blogger's views as truth. I would like people to read my analysis of shourie's lies & modi's lies too. But do I realistically think that anyone would quote them as a source? Am a qualified researcher/historian, practising journalist etc? No I am not. So read me. See sense in what I am saying, but if you quote me, that's really flattering!
Instead quote Brittanica or Wiki. Quote IE, quote the Hindu, quote Tehelka; hell you may even quote DNA, HT or TOI. But don't pass off blogger's views as fact or analysis, unless they are qualified to do this.
If I have to trust armchair analysis, I'll trust my own. No?
2-bit is hardly shameful. I'm a 2-bit blogger myself. If Amitabh Bachchan can lament the fact that something is wrong with our society if people look up to him as a hero instead of the genuine heroes, I think we should be even more aware of our humble status!!!
Why don't you look up Ram Puniyani's credentials on Wiki before you make the utterly laughable attempt of comparing his intellect (& intentions) with the aforementioned blogger? (I did breeze through the link when you'd presented it earlier, but since I know nothing of maths I couldn't make head or tail of it! All I know is that the "father of hemorheology and Biorheology in India" & an activist with a noble secular cause is not mean to be taken lightly or have his efforts maligned. Those who do it, only do it because they have a certain bent of mind!!!
Think about it TB. Why would anyone take potshots at crusaders for secularism & tolerance? The reason is the same why Gandhiji was first maligned & then assassinated. And the people who do it, are of the same bent mind.
Maybe THAT will explain why I don't set any store at all by right-wing utterances, thoughts, sympathies or blog posts.
Sure the Leftists could be wrong. And they are in certain areas. But am I to take your generic word for it or should I expect you to provide some links that tell me what you're talking about?
Thanks for the links to greatbong's & acorn's pro-tolerance pieces.
I didn't remove any of your links. I copy pasted your comment on the other post, but the links didn't get copy pasted. Blogger platform limitations. I'm not to blame. Yes I could've fed those links in manually again. Maybe I should've, so that you wouldn't have read malintent into it.
I think there is nothing wrong at all with being unequivocally anti-right-wing or anti-bjp. Being against evil is a good thing. You don't have to speak well of bad men to prove that you're free of bias. Tehelka calls a spade a spade.
Again... I continue to be stunned at your support for those armchair activists (bloggers) who often speak in favour of the rightists, and your refusal to see the rectitude of genuine activists like Setalvad, Puniyani & Roy!!!
So those 3 are bad? Shabana Azmi is bad. Ditto Javed Akhtar. Alyque Padamsee is bad.
In short anyone who exposes the right-wing's evil designs is bad. Only those people are good who can see sense in the right-wing's political nonsense. That's how it works is it?
Kuch samajh mein aa raha hai dost...?
My respect for you has grown tenfold with your stated reason for ending this discussion.
That is a stand I hope you will be able to get more & more people to emulate.
The day the bjp do what you say they should, even I may side with them. Like I've explained I side with an idea, a stand, an approach. Any party that represents that, I can side with.
I am willing (grudgingly) to take a closer look at Ms. Roy. You will need to provide me with links & quote areas that you find fault with, for me to see what you're talking about. Your blog or mine? :-)
PS: You may notice that I have linked to Ramchandra Guha's essay about her in the past. :-)