Monday, December 22, 2008

IHM continued...

IHM has a wonderful blog & we agree on almost everything. Except the language I choose to use in my comments. She was uncomfortable with some of the aggression in my comment 4 days ago, and I was unyeilding in that it wouldn't be edited. So we agreed that the comment should be made into a post on this blog, so as not to lose the important things it says, and also not disrupt the peace on IHM's lovely blog. Here is my response to this rubbish:

Krishna...

1. a) The schoolboy isn't tired. If he was, he wouldn't be here. You were staying away (& continue to do till now, those points are still unanswered) because you didn't have an answer. And you could get your leaders to try & answer that for you. I'll be ready. That's exactly the opportunity I'm waiting for. :-)

b) So Socialism is bad in your books? You didn't get the "Moderation is better than Absolutism/Extremism" argument? You can't see what unmitigated Capitalism did to Mexico's economy & now to the USA's? You don't believe ALL THOSE people who've been saying that India's economy survived the global slump because it's approach was tinged with Socialism??? That just makes you an obstinate schoolboy! :-D

2. Not accepted anything yet. Was waiting for you to clarify what you really meant. Now that you've clarified, I will research your NHDP claim, wait for you to respond to my pending queries, & then come back to you. Fair?

3. So you're not going to offer any proof?

Don't worry. I'll offer a few corrections to your half-baked knowledge.

3.1 Nehruvian Socialism did not fail us. Read up. It states that Industrialization picked up during this period & gave rise to our Navratnas.

3.2 Reading on the Era after that too doesn't indict the approach for the crisis. The oil price rise resulting from the Gulf War is referred to as the point that precipitated the crisis. And weren't oil prices again a contributing factor in the recent global crisis? (Refer to points made above in 1. b)

3.3 I am THRILLED that you are giving credit to Dr. Singh & PVN Rao, & therefore to the Congress for initiating the economic reform that causes the World to look with awe at India's economy!

Where does that leave you arguments?

4. Obviously! If you give me a livemint link (who are about as Centred as I am rightist), then I'm going to have a problem. Why don't you try BBC, Economist, NY Times etc? I might set some store by what they have to say.

5. I've always provided proof to whatever I say. I enjoy the so-called burden of proof. You seem to avoid it.You see, I'm on the side of the truth, so it's fairly easy to find. It's out there!

You on the other hand present posts from bloggers as proof!!! LOLOL!!! Who is this sharique??? Anil Kakodkar's equivalent??? You make me laugh so much dear boy...!!! LOLOL!!!

Why didn't you present the first 4 links that Google provided...? Devious malintent...?
Can I give you one?

And WHY are you avoiding the ISRO & HAL argument??? Shouldn't you, a student, be running after the truth, instead of running away from it???

6. I don't know. Will you give me a few non-blog, non-livemint links?

7. Thank you.
And I take the Roy reference as a compliment too. Roy is an achiever, and a woman with a conscience, one who isn't afraid to speak up. I may not agree with all the she has to say, but I admire her speaking up. (In that sense you're a little like her! Only she makes far more compelling arguments!)

Nothing sucks. Generalizations are a sign of an immature mind. No ~ism sucks in it's entirity! Not Socialism, Not Communism, Not Capitalism, Not Hinduism, Not Buddhism, Not Islam, Not Democracy!!! They all have good things in them. The smart thing to do is blend, take the middle path, merge, be at the centre, be moderate. How many times much I say it before you'll finally get it??

FDI in Insurance? Let's take an example. Let's assume that Tata AIG was 75% owned by AIG. How do you think the AIG collapse in the US would've impacted Tata AIG here in India? The only reason they're still standing is because of the caution. Not because of unbridled capitalism!

Learn to listen to non-right-wing people also. You'll develop a more well-rounded personality, more complete knowledge.

I'll end this with one appeal to the the young man in you:

Insaaf ke dagar pe, Bachchon dikhao chal ke.
Yeh Desh hai tumhara, Neta tumhee ho kal ke!

Insaaf
means Justice. Fairness.
If you have any interest in playing a part in nation building, then you must not forget the couplet above. You have to be fair & just. And that entails not hiding the truth, giving credit where it's due, even if it's the Congress that you dislike. Don't hide facts. Be fair & just. Build a nation that we can all be proud of! Not the nation 3 right-wing bloggers dream of!

Z@ki-R:
Don't worry. The bjp is on it's way out. The signs are already there for all to see. They're going to lose completely in the long run. No right wing movement has ever survived for long in History. No hate-based movement has ever survived either. They HAVE to lose. It's mathematical!"

11 comments:

  1. IHM,

    Why don't you highlight the areas you liked?

    And the ones you disagreed with?

    That way all readers will know the details of our rare disagreement? :-)

    ReplyDelete
  2. Hey, it wasn't that I disagreed with anyhing here :)
    But I do particularly agree with some parts,

    1.) "Nothing sucks. Generalizations are a sign of an immature mind. No ~ism sucks in it's entirity! Not Socialism, Not Communism, Not Capitalism, Not Hinduism, Not Buddhism, Not Islam, Not Democracy!!!" I agree that the middle path and moderation are the only way we can coexist. I strongly agree with this, in fact.

    2.I also feel Nehruvian Socialism was the need of the hour. A 'tinge of socialism' is essential in a country like ours. We have so much poverty here that the rich can make the poor work for just two meager meals a day.

    I have read, understand and respect Ayn Rand's philosophy, and maybe today's India is better prepared to handle that kind of economic system.

    BUT, Indian economy at the time of Independence was not ready for Capitalism, the poor would have never risen.

    I know many, including you 1conoclast, might disagree, but I think even the reservations for one or at the most two generations of lower castes were required.

    I think you have made some really good points in this post. And anybody who has any understanding of and respect for democratic principles will appreciate that.

    ReplyDelete
  3. KA,

    See? The schoolboy isn't tired. I was right on point 1. And you will see that I am on others as well. As IHM does & as "anybody who has any understanding of and respect for democratic principles will".

    :-)

    Thanks IHM. Mostly for the opportunity! :-D

    ReplyDelete
  4. Nah... 1con, the schoolboy is indeed tired :) After this debate, I will probably not engage in slug-fests anymore. I need to concentrate more on my blog first. I am postponing this debate for now because there are a few problems with my blogging platform which need to be ironed out.

    I agree with one of your points, though: that no "ism" sucks in its entirety. However, socialism sucks way more than capitalism.

    ReplyDelete
  5. KA,

    My intention was never a slugfest. If you were arguing for peace, equality & truth, I'd have gladly taken your place on the losing side!

    According to you socialism may suck more (and you're entitled to your point of view), but if you re-read the Tata AIG example & look at the US economy now, you'll find that there are no absolutes in this world.

    ReplyDelete
  6. "No ~ism sucks in it's entirity! (sic)"

    Really? How about Nazism? Fascism? Talebanism?
    And by the way, democracy is not an -ism, it's a way of governance. Understand the difference between ideologies and systems of governance.

    ReplyDelete
  7. LOL kaffir!!!

    You're getting better! You finally scored a point! :-D

    You're right. There are ~isms that seem be outright evil.

    What I wanted to get through was essentially the point, that generalizations are incorrect. And therefore, one must get to the bottom of the philosophy, the truth, before one judges too quickly.

    Yes democracy isn't an ~ism. That should be obvious, no?

    ReplyDelete
  8. Yes democracy isn't an ~ism. That should be obvious, no?

    You tell me, since it was *you* who included "Democracy" in your list of ideologies following your generic statement about -isms. (-:

    ReplyDelete
  9. Yes kaff.

    Like I said, my objective was to get a point across. Let's just focus on that.

    ReplyDelete

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