Allow me please...
1. I agree with George. Negating the Aryan Invasion theory is either rightist propaganda or wishful thinking.
How else can you explain one set of fair-skinned, light eyed people & another set of dark-skinned, dark haired people? Does this dichotomy exist in any other peoples?
a) Human life did not originate in India. Africa is said to be the cradle of life. So even the very first settlers in India must have come from elsewhere?
b) This concept of India. What is it? When did it originate? What was the map like? Who integrated us into that map first? Was it done peacefully? Or by invading other kingdoms?? Interesting question, na?
c) What was the Ashwamedha Yagya about?
d) Since when are religious texts sufficient proof of History???
e) Sanskrit & Persian have a common progenitor. And common ancient customs. That should tell you something about the origins of some of our people.
2. Oldest Living Civilization? You may want to explain that as to my knowledge Mesopotamia was the first known civilization & that area is still inhabited according to all reports.
3. Mahatma Gandhi passed away????????
What a subtle cover-up Vinod. :-) I wonder why none of the other commenters didn't spot this or bring it up! Did I intrude on a private meeting?
4. Maybe the reason none of the other things were adopted because they didn't work for us. Did they help us at all in fighting invasion after invasion? Nope. Why adopt failed strategies of governance?
I really think we should thank the Brits for having united us into India. Take a look around... they're not here & we're back to fighting among ourselves. Without a common enemy, we're a doomed people! THAT is what is in our gene pool! Apart from the scientific & philosophical brilliance you speak of.
5. Lakshmi Mittal & Dhiru Ambani are only illustrious as far as Industry & Finances go! And they weren't the first. I think you're forgetting that Azim Premji was there before these guys got there! And he wasn't from a Hindi Medium.
Mittal didn't make his fortune in India. He doesn't live here. He lives in London. With the Brits who did us many favours (apart from uniting us) such as railways, machinery etc. And I'm certain he considers himself a Global Citizen more than Indian, Maru or Calcuttan!
Narayan Murthy is an ex-Communist & his Socialist bent is reflected in his company's treatment of employees. And some (uber-patriotic?) Indians go after him with alleged flag-insult accusations.
Nandan is ex-IIT, of course! :-)
Independent India's other gems are Amartya Sen, Rajendra Pachauri, Manmohan Singh. 2 Nobel Prize winners, & one a future Nobel laureate. And none of them come with a Hindi Medium education!
Neither do other gems like Salman Rushdie, Arundhati Roy, Arvind Adiga, Kiran Nagarkar, Amitava Ghosh etc. Nor Shashi Tharoor. Nor Amitabh Bachchan!
Nor Rita Faria, Aishwarya Rai, Sushmita Sen, Lara Dutta, Priyanka Chopra etc.
THAT SAID, I must commend you on your intent of awakening pride within Indians. But without balance & truth, it come across as a little jingoistic, uber-patriotic, ultra-conservative or if I may say, rightist.
I agree with the points you have made, exaggerated glorification of Indian past reeks of an inferiority complex we need not feel.
ReplyDeleteLike Shah Rukh Khan said in Swadesh we turn to history and culture when we have nothing else to feel proud of.
If I had to take pride in something Indian it would be the strong Constitution, our Democracy (even if we choose Dynasties to rule, we CHOOSE) ... I would be proud of our Ministers being taken to Court for their misuse of power for votes (even if we vote them right back again).
Looking back is not what is going to take us anywhere but backwards. It is time we woke up to the glory of Today's India. And I think we have a lot to be proud of.
I also don't understand our need to 'beat' the world, and to be better than everybody else! Why can't we live with the world instead of trying to 'beat' them???
(This attitude also forces all Indian kids to take Science and score better than the neighbour's child. There is no concept of being your best ... I would say we need a little more introspection here. Brilliant points.
Hey btw, as a regular reader, IMHO, reading this post was a little (very) difficult, because one had to keep going to read the linked post to understand the points you have made ... wish you had copy pasted the points right here :(
Rajendra Pachauri is NOT a Nobel laureate...He 'accepted' the Nobel Peace Prize on behalf of IPCC (which won the prize) along with co-recipient Al Gore...
ReplyDeleteP.S. Please read this:
ReplyDelete"The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2007 is to be shared, in two equal parts, between the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and Albert Arnold (Al) Gore Jr. for their efforts to build up and disseminate greater knowledge about man-made climate change, and to lay the foundations for the measures that are needed to counteract such change."
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2007/press.html
IHM,
ReplyDeleteGod bless your pure heart & superb mind!
"Looking back is not what is going to take us anywhere but backwards. It is time we woke up to the glory of Today's India. And I think we have a lot to be proud of."
I wonder why they can't see it...?
Will they ever learn. Or are we doomed to fight their evil machinations forever? History seems to suggest it is the latter.
Also BANG ON about the "exaggerated glorification of Indian past reeks of an inferiority complex we need not feel"
____
Bones,
Point taken. Thanks for the correction.
Now that we're past that, do you have a view to offer on what we're talking about?
""Looking back is not what is going to take us anywhere but backwards. It is time we woke up to the glory of Today's India. And I think we have a lot to be proud of."
ReplyDeleteWell said . I partially concur . BUT , looking back is important in certain respects . India was a glorious and a magnificent nation , once . It was called the Golden Bird . Quite a few of ancient Indians came up with a lot of concepts before the West . And it is important to know that and take pride in it, so that it can inspire us on our way forward . We were great once , we can be great again . Our past does help us forge our future , if we look at it in the right light .
Kislay,
ReplyDeleteTHAT I agree with!
Our past can inspire us. But let us not selectively gloss over some parts. We were never an island. We've had loads of foreign influence that has shaped us. (Here's a previously written, mostly far-fetched theory post.)
Why say that invaders attacked us, conveniently glossing over the fact that Ashoka's integration of Magadha was brutal?
Why try to cover up the fact that Gandhiji was assasinated?
Are only some parts of our history meant to be talked about?
And are some facts meant to be concocted to inspire us?
Kislay,
ReplyDeleteA comment in response to what you'd said on Vinod's site:
1. Yes. But Ashoka's empire was called Magadha/Mauryan Empire NOT Bharat Varsh.
2. So it's fair that the Brits get a little credit? They called us India; therefore Rajputana, Punjab, Gwalior, Hyderabad, Mysore etc. started looking at themselves as India.
3. Isn't it strange how one Gujarati is known for uniting India, & how his party is blamed for the ills of Independent India & 50 years of poor-rule?
And how another gujju who divided India & has blood on his hands, is celebrated by some Indians as a hero & his party that refuses to bring him to justice is considered a national hope???
(Republishing here as Vinod deleted it on his site.)
Are only some parts of our history meant to be talked about?
ReplyDeleteAnd are some facts meant to be concocted to inspire us?
---
1con, when you go for a job interview, do you highlight all your previous faults in previous jobs, your shortcomings etc., or do you focus on what you did well?
Before you got married, did you highlight all your faults and shortcomings as a human being to your prospective wife, and your inexperience as a future husband, or did you think positive and looked at and talked about your strengths?
That should give you an answer to your questions.
IHM,
ReplyDelete"I also don't understand our need to 'beat' the world, and to be better than everybody else! Why can't we live with the world instead of trying to 'beat' them???"
I agree with you entirely...The need to beat the world means that we are not good enough...
kaffir,
ReplyDeleteIf you were seasoned enough, you would've known that interview coaches recommend absolute honesty in job interviews. There are employers who appreciate it & there are candidates who know the value of being brutally honest. Ditto in marriage.
I am one such candidate.
I don't know how much store you set by values of truth, honesty, building trust etc.
I do.
Hopefully that will give rise to a few questions in your mind... :-)
Now that we've dispensed with Interviews & Marriage, can we go back to discussing the accurate representation of History? :-)
_____
Bones,
Yes. The urge to prove oneself as superior stems from something like that.
1con, OK. So please share with us some of your faults and shortcomings that you were honest enough to mention to your employer as well as your spouse. (-:
ReplyDeleteAnd how much time did you spend talking about your shortcomings in that burst of "brutal honesty" vs. your strengths and accomplishments?
Woh kahani yaad hai - jab ek jyotish raja ko bola ki uske sab relatives raja se pehle mar jayenge, aur ek aur jyotish bola ki raja ki lambi umar hai? Dono jotish honest the, lekin pehle ko raja ne jail mein dala, aur doosre to inaam diya. Jab tum thoda seasoned ho jaoge aur is human behavior ko samajhne lagoge, tab baat karenge. Bachche ho abhi, isliye thode kachche ho - umar ka lihaj kar raha hoon.
For example, next time your wife asks you a question like "How do I look in this dress?" or "Do you like my new haircut?" or "Do I look fat in this?" - let's see you deploy your brutal honesty and see where it takes you. ;-)
kaffir,
ReplyDeleteSince you're neither a prospective employer nor spouse, I don't need to answer your question. I will however give you two examples to demonstrate to you that there are honest, straightforward people in this world, people unlike you.
When my last employer asked me whether my previous boss would rate me as low-maintainence or high; I answered unflinchingly, "High", despite knowing that most managers prefer low maintainence employees that do not make too many demands on their time. And yes I got hired. For my honesty I'm assuming.
You can argue that they must've been really desperate, but that's another argument.
For more examples on truth & honesty, please read Gandhiji's experiments with truth.
Can we go back to discussing the accurate representation of History now? This is my second request. Will I have to put it to you in another language for you to get it?
some strange comments here about...forget about it. can any SANE person actually deny that all nations are a myriad of influences?
ReplyDeleteJust like the solitary cell evolved into a complex organism so do nations and its peoples.
We must as a nation not forget where we are coming from so that we know where we are going. Our past might be glorious or full of warts and ugly - but lets see it and not wallow in it and persevere in our efforts to create a just, happy and equitable society, nation. Peace.
"Can we go back to discussing the accurate representation of History now? This is my second request. Will I have to put it to you in another language for you to get it?"
ReplyDelete~
Yes, please. Thanks. :-)
You are one of those few bloggers who continue to amuse and entertain me with their bombastic words and faux-sincerity!! Shabaash, bete. Lage raho, Gandhi ke chele. Oh, sorry, Gandhiji.
astralwicks,
ReplyDeleteThank You! Wish you a Happy New Year!
__________
kaffir,
Name your preference. Strong I presume? :-)
Thanks for the compliment. The fact that I am the object of your attention these days flatters me immensely. I don't know anyone who spends as much time on me as you do. Heartfelt gratitude. :-)
You happen to provide me with a strong sense of having been right, each time you comment. Like in this conversation, I've derived immense satisfaction at having hit into the stands, the interview & marriage balls that you were lobbing to me. Great hitting practise!
As for faux-sincerity, heera pehchaanne ke liye qhud johri hona parta hai bete. You got to be one to know one.
And the second bit of satisfaction I derive from having you take Gandhiji's name with deference. :-)
Happy New Year.
"You happen to provide me with a strong sense of having been right, each time you comment. Like in this conversation, I've derived immense satisfaction at having hit into the stands, the interview & marriage balls that you were lobbing to me. Great hitting practise!"
ReplyDelete~~~
Good. That's exactly the impression I want to convey - by lobbing soft balls to you which you can hit wherever you want and feel good about yourself. (-:
Gandhi ka chela jo bolta jyada hai, aur karta kam.
Great! Then you do serve a purpose!!
ReplyDeleteYour existence on this Earth is not entirely superfluous as it would seem.
There you go! A little self-esteem for you. Now run along & worry your other teachers instead.
choon-choon ka murabba jo anjaane mein Gandhiji ke naam ka jaap karta rehta hai. :-)))
Vikram,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the response. I can't seem to be able to post my comment on Sharmaji's blog. I've almost always faced problems commenting there (I guess because of the intensedebate tool).
I'm therefore replying to you here (instead of on your blog, as you may not want that):
Thanks for the reply Vikram.
I said in my response above that "It's alarming how we celebrate the likes of an inadequately literate mayawati solely on the basis of a positively tainted but "grassroots" rise".
Q. Should we be?
As for Sharmaji, he isn't too happy with my commenting, so I'd rather not go there.
Sure Irrfan faced fear of failure, but it would've been personal failure not public failure! He had nothing to lose. Falling from concrete onto concrete is a mere trip up. For the so called scion, it's a perceived fall from a great height on to the hard concrete.
Hrithik got a launch pad, but his father didn't. He had to claw his way up.
Tusshar had a launch pad too, but is less successful than an Irrfan or a Shahrukh.
Ditto Kishen Kumar of T-Series lineage. (It's alarming how we celebrate the rise of his elder brother, who used loopholes in the piracy/cover versions legalities to build a poor-quality-cheap-price empire!)
Are we saying that we should take away the hard work of one's ancestors & get everyone to start off at an equal level? I'm SURE the Commies will be VERY HAPPY to hear THAT!
I think we can all take heart from the fact that ultimately talent is more important than a lauch pad. Case in point: India's Cinegod Mr. Amitabh Bachchan!
JRD was a scion too. As is Ratan. Or Kumaramangalam. Or LN Mittal. Or Premji. Or the Ambani brothers.
We don't crib about that, do we? Why only politics? I'll tell you. To take cheap-potshots at the Congress whom they cannot hope to fight fairly.
I hope you get my analogy & the one about failed scions. Any thoughts yet on 1b above?
What am I supposed to comment on ? I partially agree with you as I said .
ReplyDeleteThanks Kislay.
ReplyDeleteYou were agreeing with IHM actually when you said that.
My points are still unanswered. My response to your comment on Vinod's blog. There are 3 points above. The link is on your blog.
The last iconoclast i knew was Maharishi Dayanand Saraswati of AryaSamaj fame.
ReplyDeleteAnyways being atheist, I don't care for iconoclasts.
Majority considers the individual culture (iconoclasm) as uncultures. I know such attitudes will change though and Individual culture will get its freedom from the organized culture system.
ReasonForLiberty
Unpretentious Diva,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the interest.
You mean last famous iconoclast, don't you? I have about 90% respect for Swami Dayananda.
My choice of moniker has nothing to do with Swami Dayananda's iconoclasm or your atheism.
If you look up Iconoclast on dictionary.com, you will find 2 meanings. The 2nd one is the one I always knew & used it as my moniker here, knowing that meaning. (My first preference was Opinionated, but that was taken).
I only learnt of the other meaning after those sensitive to ancient Indian religious culture, pointed it out, rather rudely of course.
My objective is to change attitudes as dictionary.com implies, not shatter religious idols.
You didn't come back on Akhtar, on Vikram's blog?
Amit,
ReplyDeleteThe points you made were expected. Yes filmdom isn't the Legislature. And businesses while more important, aren't either.
I'm sure you noticed that I was using the analogies to prove 3 things:
1. That being a scion doesn't guarantee success
2. That non-scion successes have existed in every set-up, even in our sometimes derided-sometimes-celebrated democracy. :-)
3. That in an equal set-up scions too have a right to contest without being derided. (You find my derision of mayawati probably snobbish; I find your derision of scions, possibly plebian)
I did say on my blog that the kind of equality you are proposing would've gladdened the hearts of the Commies!
Are you forgetting Lal Bahadur Shastri & Manmohan Singh???
mayawati, incredible what? Coming to power in UP by achieving a union that cut across caste lines? Yes brilliant. Not that we've not seen the faults in that kind of a union very very recently. No one is perfect. It's easy to criticise, difficult to praise.
Is that why Sonia Gandhi's achievement of 2004, despite all the foreigner labels etc., isn't spoken of? Forget scion, she wasn't even made to feel that she belonged in the country! Yet she pulled it off!
Admit it, this whole scion thing is just an attempt to weaken the Congress. A failed attempt at that.
If you have an answer to the hypocrisy of giving a ticket to Varun Gandhi, I'd be interested.
Interesting post. If I were to be brief I would just yell out "hear hear". We must take it as it is not as we want it to be. As someone who is a former commentator on Vinod's blog I can say that he is a very good writer but he obviously takes a very narrow view of what India is or ought to be.
ReplyDeleteHistory is just what it is, History. We should not be driven by our past but by our present. We can not simply shut our eyes to what is around us and go on dreaming about a fabulous past and an extremely vibrant future. I enjoyed reading your post very much.
odzer,
ReplyDeleteThanks.
I thank God that people like you exist. It's people like us that are India's only hope (& indeed the World's) for sanity & peace!
If you liked this post, you will also like IHM's post.
A quick visit to your blog seems to suggest that you're interested in food. May I recommend this?
Icon, sorry to keep you waiting but I dont have much to say.
ReplyDeleteI dont think you are not reading my comments carefully . I am not saying that being born in a dynasty guarantees success and no hard work is required. I am saying that a grass roots rise says more about a society and the individual. It says that the society is (perhaps) starting to break the shackles of an old social order and the individual had the mental strength to achieve inspite of significant obstacles.
Where's my comment ?
ReplyDeleteVikram,
ReplyDeleteThanks. I understand you. I think my point isn't being understood, maybe because it's such a neo-iconoclastic idea.
I give that a grassroots rise is extremely commendable.
My question is: Does being a scion of a dynasty mean your achievement is to be belittled.
That is what those blinded by Congress-hate are doing. Not realizing that they're equally guilty of the same. Vasundhara Raje, Varun Gandhi & others.
Does my question make sense?
And don't worry. I will never reject a comment, as long as it isn't abusive or too far off-topic.
Regards.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI was just bloghopping(for lack of another word) and landed here, and felt like commenting on this statement of yours.
"1. I agree with George. Negating the Aryan Invasion theory is either rightist propaganda or wishful thinking.
How else can you explain one set of fair-skinned, light eyed people & another set of dark-skinned, dark haired people? Does this dichotomy exist in any other peoples?"
I feel that the aversion to the Aryan Invasion Theory came about from lots of other factors apart from a nationalist propoganda.
1.No ground facts, except for assumptions.
2.Proposed by a german not by extensive research on the field but by sitting at his coffee table.
3.Based on only the fact that they had to show supremacy of the white skin.
4. Not a single place of their origin mentioned in any of the books.
5.And the fact that a nomadic tribe is capable of such a vast amount of literary genius in a short span of time.
And lot of other things.
I think you need to make a rational thinking on it to come to a conclusion. for that you first need to listen to both sides of the argument without a bias , and for you to do that my friend i think you need to shed a lot of inferiority complex you have being an indian :-). Your statements have a strong flavour of that :-)
borneveryday is a little worse than born yesterday ain't it mate?
ReplyDeleteanteretrograde amnesia, it's called, isn't it...? ;-)
1. I don't know if you're a regular visitor or an irregularity, but if you know anything about the way I write, you will know that I mostly don't say anything unless I have read up enough about it. May I direct you to Wiki & the plethora of links that the article there has around the theory? Once you've read thru that, please come back to me, and I will gladly entertain you.
2. I don't care much for being an Indian. I'm God's creature first, Earthling second, Human third, World Citizen fourth. The rest doesn't matter to me. Male, Indian, Northie etc. are concepts I find divisive and the indulgences of small minds.
Like I said in 1. above... if you'd read more of me, you'd have picked that up. Instead of jumping to conclusions about my complexes.
Would it be inappropriate for me to brand your statements as having a strong flavour of jingoism & the accompanying complexes?
I guess it would. So please don't tempt me. :-)
Thanks for the visit. Do please stick around.
Yep amnesia it is, atleast there are new things to understand and learn everyday than clogging your mind with the same theme on how to break idols, all life long :-). No offences meant.
ReplyDeleteYou talk only after you have read wiki and other stuff and I just shoot my mouth off? I have to read those links (as if i havent)and raise myself to your level and then come here and make my point? Dude you break my heart, i thought you were better than that.
I surely agree with you second point, but then, to be a part of a society you have to be a part of a family first. else you might not belong anyWhere. Is that an indulgence of a small mind like mine? You might say it is.
And about the Jingoism remark. Is it worng to counter a point which "probably" does not have a basis? (I said probably) . Is it worng to verify the truth rather than beliving what has been told about the history of a nation by some one who were not part of that nation? Bingo!! Jingoism explained!
And an out of the topic comment - Please understand that a patriot need not be jingoistic. After all there are people in the world who believe "Vasudha aiva Kutumbikam", and no, they dont go around breaking idols. There are people with "small minds" like me.
Finally about sticking around, I guess am too small a mind for you mate. Dont bother. Nice to have had a chat.
borneveryday,
ReplyDeleteForgive my aggression. I am flawed to the extent that I cannot bring myself to appreciate a point of view unless it is compelling. Since your's was not substantiated by any data & was assuming that I hadn't read anything before I spoke, my lesser self responded. :-)
And I'm going to continue in that vein until you start examining what it is that you're saying that makes me respond with scant respect.
Firstly, yes, yours is a small mind.
1. You may want to go to dictionary.com & look up the meaning of iconoclast. Idol-breaker isn't the only definition. It's the only definition you know!!! I've always known it to mean the second definition. And that will explain my stance on most things to you. Hopefully...
2. I don't feel the urge to belong to a group (what you put as family). I have a family (parents & siblings) & I'm happy about that, but I'm not going to let that stop me from aquiring another family (wife & kids). Or new friends.
Let's not get into petty concepts.
3. I already know that a patriot needen't be jingoistic. I am a patriot. One who isn't jingoistic. But your comment that I suffer from an inferiority complex about being an Indian is trademark jingoism! You question my patriotism, I will demolish yours! Fair?
4. I didn't instantly jump to conclusions about you based on your URL. You however do suffer from the tendency to jump to all kinds of conclusions, as one can see.
5. Do stick around. As you can see, you're learning. Small minds can grow, can't they? It's always nice to have a chat. Do stick around. :-)
1conoclast,
ReplyDeleteForgive my aggression. I am flawed [..]self responded. :-)
Forgive your agression? Who am I to do that? A little bit of agression is required when making a point, but that should not border onto an ego trip.
Firstly, yes, yours is a small mind.
Thanks for making that clear. I would be indebted to you for that.
1. You may want[...] to you. Hopefully...
This makes me laugh, really! When I say Idol breaker do you think i saying it in the literal sense?? SO do you think that I literally think that I take birth every day with a pseudonym as borneveryday?? I have a small mind indeed, but was wondering from when has the english language been a perorgative of the mighty minds.
2. I don't feel the [...] new friends.
Let's not get into petty concepts.
Surely!! Lets not get into petty concepts. And may be it was a remark at the wrong place.
3. I already know [..] demolish yours! Fair?
Do excuse my agression here,if you take offence at me touching on the subject of your patriotism. That never was the intention and i did not look at it that way until you reminded me of it. Error of a small mind indeed. Sorry about that.
But then I have firmly believed that people need to know their history to understand the good/bad things they need to follow/not follow so as to not reinvent the wheel. But then lets get the history books straight first instead of blindly following what Mr Muller told us, thats what I was trying to do. And if he was true i would have not problem changing my view. I am not ready to die for my ideals, because i am not sure if they are right or not.Again small mind,
4. I didn't instantly [..] can see.
The only conclusion(it was more of an assumption) that i had made was that you have a complex about India's past. But from your end my friend you seem to know enough about me to write my biography. I really do have a small mind.
5. Do stick [..] :-)
Yep am learning and small minds do grow, but if I am getting a gist of how a mighty mind works, then i guess i rather stay a small mind :-) Again no offences meant
"Since your's was not substantiated by any data s assuming that I hadn't read anything before I spoke" - Data is not given in the first instance of a debate. People first tune into what the other person has to say, get to know their thoughts and then start giving facts/data which they believe might be true. But I assume that you dont agree to that view and believe that attack is the best form of defense.(forgive my arrogance of making an assumption about a higher being , a bigger mind?? :-) )
I firmly believe that when there is a debate the final victor should knowledge, the truth, could be either your point of view or mine, but it surely has to be knowledge. I WILL NOT have a chat/talk/debate when i reason that, the end victor would be EGO, either yours or mine.
borneveryday...
ReplyDelete5. Touche! :-)
Why don't you just read the content on Wiki (or other sources if you prefer) & then come back. We'll talk.
Do you have an answer for this question I asked:
"How else can you explain one set of fair-skinned, light eyed people & another set of dark-skinned, dark haired people? Does this dichotomy exist in any other peoples?"
It's never about ego buddy. It's always about truth. Truth backed up by facts.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteborneveryday,
ReplyDeleteSorry I had to delete your comments.
I can not allow my blog to be used as a medium to propogate facist/rightist/neo-nazi/hindutva propaganda.
If you noticed, I didn't even visit your blog. I would rather spend my time & energy on reading people who are writing without vested interests in mind. Unfortunately none of the links you gave qualified as without vested interest.
Your Mongoloid point is interesting. Worth evaluating. Do you have a non-jingoistic, non-hindutva link attempting to answer that question?
And who exactly is this Prof. Dinesh Agarwal anyway??? Obviously no one I've heard of. :-)
"facist/rightist/neo-nazi/hindutva" I am none of it. I am not even religious, and the hell, I dont have a faintest affiliation towards any political party!
ReplyDeleteYOu really have put on blinders towards anything that does not remotely match to your point of view isnt it???
"I would rather spend my time & energy on reading people who are writing without vested interests in mind"
This is one statement that I think i need
follow. I think i went overboard commenting on an article whose author is already prejudiced, For the only reason that i can understand his view point. But then ...alas, Prejudice is prejudice, it kills grey cells.
And finally now that you have called me a "facist/rightist/neo-nazi/hindutva" , Shall i take the liberty to assume that you are a commie? Assume ??? I guess that would be a conclusion. I dont see anyone who can have such a big blinder on their eyes except for Indian commies. :-)
borneveryday,
ReplyDeleteYou're jumping to conclusions again!
I didn't mean you when I used all those words. I was referring to the links you provided.
They're not Brittanica, Discovery of India, Google, Wikipedia exactly are they?
Who are they? A bunch of people with "vested interest". Presenting a one-sided view.
So don't spout words like prejudice, commie etc., when in fact you haven't even been able to decipher that my earlier comment was referring to the links you provided.
And you've touched upon a topic I'm very keen on examining. What is this stuff about Indian commies that I keep hearing references, but no solid arguments to?
Mind you, I'm not a communist at all. No commie would worship Dr. Manmohan Singh the way I do. But I'm interested in knowing what the bereft of ideas right-wing has to offer about Indian commies.
Game?
"You're jumping to conclusions again!"
ReplyDeleteReally?
"I didn't mean you when I used all those words. I was referring to the links you provided."
Ok for that I guess you need to check this statement of yours
"Sorry I had to delete your comments.
I can not allow my blog to be used as a medium to propogate facist/rightist/neo-nazi/hindutva propaganda."
What kind of person will propogate a piont of view if they dont subscribe to it?? If my posts seem to be a propogation of a certain thought process, what does that make me? obviously one of them. Probably you did not mean it and probably I am not one of them, but if I dont know you well I can only infer things at face value of a statement made, after all, I have a small mind, remember?
"They're not Brittanica, Discovery of India, Google, Wikipedia exactly are they?"
No they arent, But the above are not the ONLY sources of info are they??
"Who are they? A bunch of people with "vested interest". Presenting a one-sided view."
Okay so what?? What stops you from listening to their "one sided view"? Dont these kind of statements from you make me think you are prejudiced?? Like me whi is prejudiced against the commies( though I am not so strict on not listenign to them, i would surely listen to their view).
And finally the commie comment was to tackle the right wing comment of yours. I really have no interest in knowing your political leaning. Its your choice. I had only wanted to know about a view point which is opposite of mine.
But all our last few comments has a "me better than you" flavour (both mine and yours), with no regards to the topic on hand watsoever ( not a single fact reasoned and debated upon), which makes me think that its going no farther.
So, peace.
I will take my bloody "rightist ideology" elsewhere and you can keep yours( watever yours is... centrist, leftist, mighty mindist :-P etc :-)).
Bye.
P.S. Sad that ego won. Like it usually wins.
boreveryday,
ReplyDeleteI didn't blame you for jumping to conclusions. I was only pointing out that you were. Your analysis of the reasons is bang on. You don't know me, so you would assume. My point is just this: Why would you instantly assume the negative?
I want to listen to opposing points of view. I really do. I've said earlier that the only way we can tackle differences is by talking about it. But this particular bunch doesn't only give it's point of view. It resorts to propaganda. That is a commonly known fact. They like to change history text books, they teach alternate versions on Mahatma Gandhi in their shakha run schools. HOW can I talk to people like THAT???
You I can talk to. I won't go to the link, but if you have a question/pov to discuss, please be my guest. This time in the true sense of the term. :-)
Ah! Like I tackled your "complexes" assumption? That way? OK, well done.
FYI, anyone is who is opposed to a race supremacist attitude is the ideological opposite of the right-wing.
To find someone with the opposite view of yours, you would have to state your views. I'm not given to jumping to conclusions. :-)
No ego at play here. Just ideologies I think.
Stick around. Let's talk.