Monday, January 12, 2009

Sagarone: Why NOT War


Your very eloquent & almost persuasive argument for war is dangerous. It has the potential to sway someone who feels strongly about the tension between the two countries.

I'd like to present some more views against, not just war with pakistan, but the very idea of war!
(You may or may not have read the plethora of reasons provided here earlier.)

I am not saying & will not say that war hasn't been an option advocated & practised by men with far greater intellect, stature, beliefs & of course compulsions. But isn't it time we evolved as a race? Discarded notions of the past & adopted newer, peaceful approaches to end conflict?

The basic premise of my argument is & will remain this: Resorting to violence as a solution is a baser instinct, it's the easy way out. It doesn't take much thinking, much restraint, much intellect to resort to violence. War therefore is not the best solution. It's only the obvious solution. If you can call it a solution, considering that it kills so many people, and creates more bitter enemity than existed earlier.
Did our war against pakistan in 1971 achieve anything? It killed our soldiers & theirs. And I bet more than a few civilians. And it gave pakistan more reason to hate us, plot against us, develop nuclear arsenal to use against us.
Did the war in Afghanistan or Iraq help? Or in the middle east? Have they solved anything yet? Or have they simply created a situation that constantly threatens to go from bad to worse?

I quote from bhupinder's comment on one of Annie's (as usual) eloquent posts:
Tank aage badhein ke peeche hatain
kokh dharti ki baanjh hoti haifateh ka jashn ho ki haar ka sog
zindagi mayyaton pe roti hai
jung toh khud masla hai ek

jung kya maslon ka hal degi

A few questions Sagarone:
Why are we so eager to go to war with pakistan? To avenge the lives of our countrymen? To avenge the attack on our territory? To defend our honour? To ensure that this is not repeated ever? Because there seems to be no other quick & easy way to bring the perpetrators to justice? I'm assuming that your answer is yes to all of those questions.
If that is so, consider the following scenarios:
In order to bring justice to our fellow Indians who perished, to ensure that it doesn't happen ever again, to bypass the long-drawn out politico-legal dancing that is supposed to deliver justice but doesn't, should we:

  1. Wage War against the Govt. of Gujarat?
  2. Wage War against the Govt. of Orissa?
If War is such a quick & easy solution to bring criminals to justice, why does it sound right in one situation & not in the other?

Like I said in my comment on your post earlier (points # 3, 4 & 5), we must look for a better solution, not go for the easier one. I hope I have sufficently demonstrated the fact that the easier one hasn't worked. If you're looking for a few centuries of power, maybe it'll work. But if you hope for mankind to live in peace on Earth, then as a solution, it has as much IQ as a Rambo or Terminator type of movie.


  1. I agree with you...War is not a solution especially when it involves nuclear weapons...Diplomacy and economic sanctions are the only options...

  2. Bones,

    That was quick!

    Thanks. More power to you!

  3. 1conoclast, War is not a option nor it is not a solution for all ills. However, military capability can be used as a deterrent in many cases. And in any case, I think pains are being taken by the government to state that military options - do not necessarily mean 'war'. There are other military 'options' before we come to an all out war - which I think we will not, and should not come to.

  4. Smitha,

    Welcome to the blog.

    I'm glad you agree. And I agree with you too, as you will find thru this link.

    My point is very simple: I'm sure there's a better way. Let's focus our energies on looking for it. We can build spaceships, put probes on Mars & men on the Moon, but we can't resolve a conflict without a fight? It's possible in the corporate world. They train you in conflict resolution.
    Why isn't it possible in this case? Because it doesn't suit the interests of some people? Because a few people without sayyam want to shoot their mouths off?
    I'm sure we can rise above all of that!

  5. 1con, I can not speak about the 'we' that you mention. I personally have come to the conclusion that co-existence with Pakistan in its current form is not possible. And Mumbai was not the only reason I have come to this understanding. Although Mumbai and the reactions from Pak authorities in its aftermath, just reinforced my view.

    This is not about justice or avenging attacks or even about honor. It is about removing the threat to our survival as a sovereign nation. I am not eager at all for India to go to war, 1con. I understand that only after all other options have been exhausted should it be even considered. Perhaps you are looking at this from the perspective of recent happenings, but please take a larger view and look at the history of the last 60 years and where we are standing and what kind of adversary we are facing. I believe that we are about to reach the end of the road wrt the alternatives we have.

    Gujarat and Orissa are our internal matters and they do not pose existential threats to the Indian Federation. I am writing this hurriedly and may perhaps not have been able to convey my thoughts coherently, so please bear with me.

  6. Thanks Sagarone.

    You made me wait man! :-)

    So is it safe to say that you & I agree? That war is an option after we can keep our hands on our hearts & say that we've tried everything else & failed?

    The point isn't whether Gujarat & Orissa are internal matters or not. The point is if there's a problem in those states, should concerned Indians wage ware against those two states? All else seems to have failed there too. Or does it sound like I'm jumping the gun?

    As for existential threats to the Indian Federation... I think you may want to consider the mentality that went into forming pakistan. They for some strange reason felt threatened here. So they went there. Now as our minor neighbours, do they perceive India as an existential threat to their federation. 1971 proved that we are, didn't it? And the presence of a religious right wing in India will give them no confidence at all.
    Let's try getting rid of our right wing, so that they feel less threatened. Let's work together with them.

    PS: What are our alternatives with China? They have our territory too. They have a to-scale model of our territory where they carry our military exercises. They talk tough with us. They vote against us at the UN. I'd like to see us adopting the same brave stance with respect to China.

  7. Sagarone,

    Your commenting is always welcome. I don't have to bear with you at all.

    I still credit you with that wonderful post of yours where you asked whether a passport would be needed to visit the Hindu Republic of Gujarat.

    What confounds me is your choice in certain friends...

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  10. kaffir...

    What have I said about abusive language?
    (I know you lack the ability to understand, but you can at least read!)

    I'm sorry I had to delete your priceless gems. I couldn't make much sense of them, peppered as they were with gems like:
    imbecile twit
    better off in Pakistan
    you half-brained nincompoop
    ignorant twit
    ghar ka bhedi Lanka dhave
    you stupid Jaichand

    A testimony to your eloquence indeed!
    And of course to the pure love that exists in your heart for "non-Aryan" Indians.
    Get out of here you neo-nazi f*ck!
    Watch me take you & your right-wing down single-handedly!

    Insaan bano pehle. Phir sochne kii kshamtaa praapt hogi. Abhi toh tum maatr jaanwar ho, jhund mein ghoomne ki aadat lagi hai. Jhund se baahar aao. Leave the rightists behind. Evolve!!!

  11. err kaffir...

    Watching you have an apoplectic fit pleases me immensely. I actually grin from ear to ear, so unless you wanna give me the joy that Dirty Harry got from mouthing, "Go ahead. Make my day!", you really should refrain! :-D

  12. If i may add my two paisas :p Why does no one advocate war against the PRC. It is also occupying a lot of Indian territory and funds/supplies weapons to the enemies of India. Why have two standards on this one :-)

    War is just not a solution and especially a war between nuclear neighbours.

  13. odzer!

    Brothers in thought. I asked exactly the same question in my comment to Sagarone above!

    Two's company, three's a crowd. If there's strength in numbers, we oughta be proud!

  14. I know you will love this and hate Anu whathisname forever after this.

    And I think even if this was all fixed, Karan Kapoor has guts.
    The sentiment in this video will also tell you why some of us want war...

  15. I like the post yes, but unfortunately I can't see the video. Annu Kapoor is just another of those uber-patriots I'm thinking.

    Can you update me on the content of the video? I can't seem to get at all why any thinking person would want war... :-)


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